Lady @Lady@cat.family

@alyssa @gaditb oh because i don't believe moral good is a property of people but of actions and systems, and the actions and systems which provide the most benefit for the oppressed happen to be (perhaps definitionally?) good ones

@gaditb see the question which started this discussion was what alignment i pick for my baldur's gate character so i needed a definite answer

(i wasn't framing good and evil as non-opposites i was just using them with multiple meanings; the adjectival “good/evil” was morally good/evil, while the nominal “good/evil” was good/evil according to the d&d alignment system; i do not equivalate these)

@gaditb (by poststructuralists i mean foucaultians and similar who oppose biopower/necropower/colonialism but don't view power relations as escapable)

@gaditb but actions which "control others" and "improve the lives of others" aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact every lawful character has an aim of controlling others regardless of alignment

it sounds like you want to say that if it improves the lives of others at all, it is good, and it's only evil if it never does, and i don't think that's a balanced framing

@gaditb my point is, i definitely recognize that

fascist / capitalist / ancap

are evil archetypes. but i'm not convinced that

tankie / poststructuralist / ancom

are not ALSO evil archetypes. but like, in a good way

@gaditb under your definitions, the good neutral evil character understands that material conditions are such that their aims are most achievable when people work together in solidarity over shared mutual interest. they do not care about “helping people” in the abstract, but materially, they believe that a mass perspective will do better for them than a perspective of individualism and manipulation. it so happens that a mass perspective is also, materially, what is best for people in general

does it really matter whether you are organizing a union because you are a disempowered worker who wants more power, or if you are organizing a union because you want what is best for society? in the end, disempowered workers getting more power IS what is best for society

@gaditb so you think what distinguishes good (d&d alignment) from evil (d&d alignment) is ends and not means

« Her rather oversized bust floated above the water, offering helpful buoyancy. »

her rather oversized bust:

@AuntyChrist these are both fictions

i was trying to explain to @Satsuma that the good/evil dichotomy is just the idealism/materialism question and they were having none of it

“i don't understand what precludes a good neutral evil”

i always confuse “thespian” and “therian”

@KitRedgrave i think it's AD&D 2nd ed actually

i can forgive the technical limitations and wonky controls but i'm not sure i can forgive the term “THAC0”

so far it feels like both a pretty good game and a very bad game