Lady @Lady@cat.family

@gaditb @Satsuma i think the violation here is one of secularizing church (allowing them to be taxed and regulated) not one of making religious the state

@Satsuma @gaditb well, i think saying one has a moral obligation to vote in specific instances does not necessarily violate the principle. saying one has a moral obligation to vote in races which are not competitive and will not change anything is pretty clearly civil religion

@gaditb considering the generally low turnout in most American elections, either it is not or many people are not very religious

more subjectively, i think that as elections have increasingly ceased to be competitive and as candidate quality has dropped, “you must always exercise your right to vote” has shifted to be a pretty hardline traditionalist position. for some i think protesting is a stronger imperative than voting

@gaditb yeah i agree with this largely; i think this is how many progressives view patriotism

@gaditb i think people who criticize “organized religion” conceive of their criticisms as applying equally to buddhist monasteries and the roman catholic church. whether that is actually true is a different question, but these posts are written assuming a worldview in which some criticism applies to both (the criticism usually being: in organized religions, other people tell you what to think/do)

i am not arguing a stance with respect to religion in general, just making the claim that listening to religious experts is not always a bad thing. “experts” implies organization because it is thru organization that experts become recognized. (“organization” here is a synonym for “society” and it might be more appropriate to talk about “social religions” and “asocial religions”, but the people who criticize organized religions do not want to admit that they are arguing for asociality)

the distinction between an organized religion and an unorganized one is of the same character as the distinction between public and private. many ex‐Christians believe it is fine to be privately religious but that it is bad to publicly participate in religious practice (for a very narrow definition of “public” which varies)

what Christianity teaches is that people are vulnerable and fallible and sometimes they need the leadership of experts. this has a failure mode on one end where people found cults and tell you not to trust your eyes or ears or conscience. and it seems many people have seen this and pivoted to the opposite failure of seeing themselves as infallible and not trusting experts at all

you do not have to accept Christianity¦s framing. but if you grew up in a Christian context you should at least merit that the true answer is somewhere in the middle

an organized religion is just an organized discussion. there are lots of reasons not to like specific religions, but if you hate a religion simply for the sin of being organized that just means you hate listening to people who aren¦t yourself

thinking non‐cult organized religions are evil 🤝 people who think they are smarter than everyone else

well‐known void

@SportsGoblin it is good for me personally go rays