@gaditb considering the generally low turnout in most American elections, either it is not or many people are not very religious

more subjectively, i think that as elections have increasingly ceased to be competitive and as candidate quality has dropped, “you must always exercise your right to vote” has shifted to be a pretty hardline traditionalist position. for some i think protesting is a stronger imperative than voting

@gaditb @Lady i feel like saying one has a moral obligation to vote does not necessarily run counter to separation of church and state

@Satsuma @gaditb well, i think saying one has a moral obligation to vote in specific instances does not necessarily violate the principle. saying one has a moral obligation to vote in races which are not competitive and will not change anything is pretty clearly civil religion

@gaditb @Lady this isn’t a tenet of my religion so i do not feel strongly about the specifics of execution but if, hypothetically, the pope came out and was like “i feel it is a moral duty that everyone always vote, even when doing so is largely symbolic” that would not be an issue of separation of church and state because the pope is not the government, even if he is encouraging people to take actions which will impact the makeup of the government.

similarly as long as the authority for american civil religion directing people to vote is not the government this is also not an issue of separation of church and state. and the government is currently quite anti voting so i feel safe to assume this is the case

@Satsuma @Lady Not that it is enforced, especially against major Christian groups, but iirc "preaching politics from the pulpit" -- endorsing a specific candidate as part of a religious service -- is a violation of the separation of church and state.

Which is not quite there, but I think depending on where you draw the lines around American Civil Religion as a piece of society you'll easily include specific candidate endorsements?

@gaditb @Satsuma i think the violation here is one of secularizing church (allowing them to be taxed and regulated) not one of making religious the state

@gaditb @Satsuma but that would just be an argument against American Civil Religion as a religion instead of a political institution

if you want to argue it is a religion, under the American constitutional understanding of religiosity, you have to argue it is not political. the aspects which are political obviously can be made subject to politics

@Lady @gaditb i agree that saying who one should vote for is much more dubious than merely saying one should vote.