@Satsuma @Lady

Yeah, I'm entirely sympathetic with people taking issue with Mozilla. However, they seem to have the only fully functioning nonprofit browser. Also the only non-Chromium-based browser. And Chromium is an issue because its development is controlled by Google. Unfortunately, I think the issue with Mozilla and other nonprofits is that for-profit institutions still have outsize control over them via funding.

@Satsuma @Lady It's just a bad situation all around.

@unspeakablehorror @Satsuma webkit isn’t Chromium-based (but it isn’t nonprofit either) [but it’s arguably more nonprofit than Firefox, which is used to drive Pocket and Mozilla V·P·N subscriptions]

but no i’ve seen plenty of people who are more than happy to roll out “your problem is with Mozilla Corporation not Mozilla Foundation and also their huge C·E·O bonuses and A·I investment are just capitalism” when, in fact, no other open source foundation is Like This, mozilla is a huge outlier

@Lady @unspeakablehorror if i thought webkit might go away i would also be upset, as having only 3 browser options is dire enough

the AI is just Gross and idk why anyone would defend it (or brush it off as ‘just capitalism’ lol)

@Satsuma @unspeakablehorror i think the only people trying to make firefox go away are the people who fund it

@Lady @Satsuma

Hmmm, this is actually a signature issue of modern capitalist rot, too (eg what happened with Toys R' Us). They may very well be trying to sink their own ship via mismanagement in the attempt to make some quick and easy money.

@Lady @Satsuma What browsers besides Safari use Webkit?I know Opera used to use it but now uses Chromium.Webkit is controlled by Apple, so it's not any more nonprofit than Internet Explorer was (Edge does not have the same relevance though). They both exist to promote dependency on the parent company.

I think anyone saying that having a problem with Mozilla Corporation would not be linked to issues with Mozilla Foundation would be missing how they are inextricably linked.

@Lady @Satsuma I do think Mozilla's issues are absolutely a result of capitalism. CEO bonuses at employee expense and and the whole buying into the current AI grift are signature issues of the capitalist rot surrounding Mozilla. Mozilla originally grew out of a corporation--Netscape Communications Corporation, and Mozilla Corporation has existed for nearly the entire history of the nonprofit Foundation.I'd argue that this nonprofit was essentially a means (cont)

@Lady @Satsuma to revive the declining Netscape corporation.

Chromium is similar to Mozilla in its early days in that it is managed entirely by Google, as Mozilla was originally managed by Netscape Corp. And Google is *certainly* involved in AI with, for example, it's Google Bard.I'm not saying these are the same situation, but they are more similar than they appear.

So on further consideration,I am forced to conclude that there are 0 full-featured nonprofit browsers.

@unspeakablehorror @Satsuma GNOME Web, also known as Epiphany, is built on Webkit

i’m not sure what the current status of it is since i think most Linux distributions have switched to Firefox, but it seems to still be putting out releases