Brother Beopryun & muddling through morality & justice thoughts 

@alpine_thistle Yeah that thinking is compatible with what he says--he compared condemnation to a knife, a useful tool when used for one's own purposes (e.g. the abuser puts down his abusive beliefs, or the victim sets boundaries with the abuser) but a deadly weapon when used on another (e.g. the victim condemns the abuser, the abuser tries to corrode the victim's boundaries). And you can imagine what a Buddhist monk thinks of stabbing or slapping people xD Not so much that it's "wrong" so much as people are free to choose to do it, but have to accept the consequences which will be, among other things, their own suffering.

So the two conceptions of responses to abuse can exist side by side, and in fact Beopryun's discussion of having compassion and understanding for the other seems to have a lot in common with the function of sensemaking, or creating a coherent narrative, in the psychology of abuse recovery. The role of morality is fundamentally different in the two schools of thought, though.

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Brother Beopryun & muddling through morality & justice thoughts 

@alpine_thistle @ljwrites i don’t have a good activist for this off the top of my head unfortunately, but i’d be interested to hear what the restorative justice folks would have to say about this

I feel like they’ve worked through a similar line of thought, where the goal is achieving healing for both the victim and the perpetrator, to most effectively repair past harms and prevent future ones

Brother Beopryun & muddling through morality & justice thoughts 

@Satsuma @alpine_thistle My conflicting thoughts about restorative justice probably closely parallel my conflicting thoughts about Buddhist practices, so that tracks xD On the one hand, yes, absolutely, alternatives to systematically violent and ineffective punitive/incarceral "justice" systems are urgently necessary. On the other I'm leery of compassion being a path to premature forgiveness that does not induce safety or prevent future harm. Maybe I still need to kill the cop in my head? Idk idk

Brother Beopryun & muddling through morality & justice thoughts 

@alpine_thistle @ljwrites yeah i think the (good) restorative justice folks are most interested in that second half — does condemnation effectively induce safety and prevent harm? (recidivism rates indicate probably not, at least under our current system) if not, what system would effectively induce such things?

Brother Beopryun & muddling through morality & justice thoughts 

@Satsuma @alpine_thistle This is probably where justice systems and religion diverge sharply, because from what I've seen of Buddhist thought the emphasis is not so much on reducing/preventing harm in the secular realm as, "They are free to hurt others but cannot escape the consequences of doing so." The point where justice systems intersect with this rule, I'm guessing, is in what "consequence" to plug into that equation in the material/worldly realm.

Brother Beopryun & muddling through morality & justice thoughts 

@ljwrites @alpine_thistle yeah — they’re both systems that have a lot to say about ethics so it can be interesting to compare, but i’m firmly in favor of the separation of church and state which dramatically alters how those ethical principles can actually be implemented

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