With all the due benefit of the "duh, it's fight-for-the-culture time" doubt, damn, people here are aggressive about certain (N>1) categories of opinions in a way I hadn't seen since the worst days of hanging out on Tumblr. Getting specific "tone" flashbacks too, probably just because of the patterns people adopt in this style of posts given an increased character count.
Demographics change but people don't lmao
@essentialrandom I think there's something to be considered as to whether the landscape also supports this sort of fighting.
Like there's maybe also here again more space to fight over, and more ability to defend that patch of space if you feel you've won it.
(... maybe.)
(... but also, People Don't.)
@gaditb @essentialrandom yeah something i will say as an Old is that masto users are definitely way more invested in The Meta but that comes as a direct consequence of it being something they can be engaged in and change, like
twitter users could yell and scream for a change to the platform all day and like, what's the point, twitter isn't going to listen lmao. but here that same discourse CAN have a material impact on the platform, so there's actually a reason to get involved
what this means is that users generally DO feel enabled to influence and shape the platform with their actions, and that has both positive and negative effects lol
@Lady @essentialrandom Like as one example worth looking at, the push for "tags should go in CamelCase!". That was never a big thing on Twitter, but not for any technical reason -- the way tags work here is not functionally different, for that purpose, than on Twitter.
So what changed? I'd argue probably, a greater expectation about the ability to be heard by a coherent, smaller bounded set of people AROUND YOU, that your voice could potentially make a measurable impact on that would affect your experience. Making a push like that now more worth a shot.
(A null hypothesis here is that people are recognizing it as a new platform with newly-developing, and so more fluid and pliable, norms, regardless of the architecture of the platform. And so people are just trying to luck their preferred norm into the accepted universals. Also I... don't actually remotely know how CamelCase tags advocacy looked on Twitter, to actually compare.)
@gaditb @essentialrandom (admins actually now CAN edit the default casing of a tag to make it camelcase, so there was actually a code change which resulted from this discussion. eugen added it as part of the trends review workflow.)
@Lady @essentialrandom (Oh! There was a change I am unambiguously For that was part of 4.0? Today I Learned, I guess.)
@gaditb @essentialrandom long series of changes; i think they all predate 4.0:
• use user-provided casing in autosuggest: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/8394
• use the first casing as the default in the backend without intervention: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/11416
• trending tags UI, which allows editing of casing: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/11490
@gaditb @essentialrandom oh i didn't necessarily mean just code! (code is actually really hard to change lol! although that too!)
admins are people here, and people you can just talk to. sitewide discourses can, or at least feel like they can, impact admin policy, especially if you are on a medium-sized instance and feel like you can get a quorum with your local mates. (i think admins are actually pretty hard to persuade but it's decidedly different than on a centralized platform regardless.)
and also like… people are PROUD of their communities in many cases?
in any case, i'm not saying this NECESSITATES people being cops about things, but i do think we have more general civic engagement here, and some people approach civic engagement by being cops. it is in OUR hands to decide the future of the platform, and fortunately or unfortunately that means There Will Be Politics about What That Means.
and i totally get people who are like “i don't want to be politically engaged i just want to post pictures of cute boys on the internet”. you don't have to be political, and you CAN just post cute boys. however, politics will be happening outside your door regardless, and i think that can come as a shock to people who are used to spaces where that kind of discussion… isn't really productive or doesn't lead anywhere ever.
@gaditb @essentialrandom there is a reverse-network effect here too: because people (historically) haven't been able to use mastodon as "passive consumption" social media very well (because all of the big content creators weren't here), the people who stick around tend to be the people with active social investments in the community. that means that when the community decides “let's do this”… people actually do it. it doesn't feel like a huge uphill climb where most people don't care; you can just click on the local timeline for any instance and find people actively interested in making that instance better.
not all of them have the right ideas about what “making it better” means or how to go about it, but
@Lady @essentialrandom "not all of them have the right ideas about what “making it better” means or how to go about it, but"
The Should Simply All Listen To Me, With Whom The Halacha Always Agrees.
@Lady @essentialrandom Ooh, I actually... okay, I don't DISAGREE here, but I think just viewing the landscape as the code is incomplete.
That explains, e.g., the current debate over quote-toots, but it doesn't explain the equally virulent arguments over Properly Using CWs or over self-promotion. I think it's not just the platform itself that people feel like they might have more control over, but the norms of the people/communities nearby* them as well.
(*"nearby" might be doing a lot there and I haven't defined it)